Wednesday, September 26, 2007

In Memory of Felicity

John Piper just lost a granddaughter. His and his family's loss is beautifully felt in his words.

10 comments:

Sharon L said...

I read that yesterday and, of course, had tears streaming down my face.

However, I struggle with the assumption that all babies go to heaven. I find it hard to believe that guys like Piper and Mac Arthur are so quick to gloss over verses like Psa 51:5

"Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me."

and Rom 9:22 - 23

"What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory."

Also, I don't think Grandfather Piper cares much about who's in heaven with him in the presence of the risen and glorified Christ.

That is what should put tears in our eyes (also).

Am I wrong or just woefully insensitive?

Sharon L said...

My husband clarified that Piper is not necessarily putting all babies in heaven -- only those who would be believers if they lived to maturity.

Christina said...

Sharon -- I know this is a controversial topic. I read *part* of MacArthur's book on the subject, and I don't believe he's glossing over those verses -- only that those verses don't directly state that these babies wouldn't be in heaven.

In fact, it mentions biblical references that would imply that those that die young are indeed in heaven. David, when his young son dies, says something along the lines of "I will go to him, but he will not return to me." David didn't believe that he would be going to Hell -- he believed that he would see his son in Heaven.

Also, Job, after his tragedies, said something along the lines of (forgive all my paraphrasing) "It would be better for me if I had been stillborn..." -- Again, Job wouldn't state this if he believed that, being stillborn, he would be undergoing the wrath of God for all eternity.

Christina said...

My husband say's that I'm being sloppy with my references. I agree. Here's what I was referring to:

2 Samuel 11:23 -- "But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me."

And Job 3: 11-19 discusses the peace and rest found by those who are stillborn or miscarried.

Sharon L said...

I trust your sloppy references :-)

I haven't read MacArthur's book -- I'd definitely be interested in seeing his exposition of those passages.

I guess my issue comes down to this: we shouldn't need to comfort ourselves with visions of the little ones in glory, the sovereignty of God working all of creation for His glory should be all the comfort we need.

Christina said...

I'd agree that if our trust in the character of God is called into question by any human's eternal position, then we have a wrong view of God's holiness and man's deservance of His wrath.

Yet still, I believe that it is natural (and I can't argue wrong) to find comfort in the thought of loved ones being reconciled to God for all eternity...It is what we so often cry out for in our requests to God.

Using my references from earlier, I would even argue that David found comfort in knowing that, though his child's physical life had not been spared, he would see him in heaven...

I don't think that considering these things implies a lack of acknowlegement and faith in God's sovereignty and His plan to work all things for His glory. Yet it gives us another opportunity to offer praise and thankfulness!

Sharon L said...

Nicely argued, Christina. That seems to be a valid point.

On a different topic:

isn't it a shame that these articulate theological minds of ours are being wasted on wiping bottoms and scrubbing floors?

(hee...hee...hee)

Christina said...

=) Danny and I both got a good chuckle outta that one...(well, Danny was drinking his bottle and noticed that I was randomly laughing...and decided to join in)!

Lynne said...

Can I just add that I love that you two are having this debate between fixing bottles and wiping bottoms?!? Praise God that your theologically thinking minds are investing in raising up (we pray) the theological minds of the future! You're both a blessing!

David said...

For those of you looking to read more on this issue, the book by John MacArthur is titled Safe in the Arms of God. You may also want to check out the following articles: "The Salvation of the 'Little Ones': Do Infants who Die Go to Heaven?" by Al Mohler and "What happens to infants who die?" by John Piper.